I'm just not really that worried about it. I'm sure it will be fine. If it is not, I will be disappointed, but it won't throw me out of shape that it will ruin my holiday or ruin my life. Things have to be kept in perspective. After all you can get a bad anything (camera, freezer, tv, etc). If you don't like it you simply take it back or at the very least learn from the mistake and never buy that brand of product again. It's life, it happens. Sometimes things advertised aren't always what they appear to be.
The only thing I do see in the photos from Merit is the pictures look way too bright. Like someone was standing too close to the thing and used the flash and whited the stupid thing out. The whole plane looks too white in the picture to me but that could possibly be due to the angle and light of the photo. Whoever took the photo did a less than ideal job to say the least, looks like it was quickly done in my honest opinion.
I see the darker areas people see in the photos as well, but they don't look like spots. Spots to me is like on a dalamatian or a lepoard or something. These aren't exactly spots. It's hard to tell exactly how they look or what they will look like because the pictures that were taken are basically horrendous and don't help the situation at all.
If people have such a problem with this, that's totally fine. But no one can honestly tell me that these "spots" are as bad as some of the old 21st century planes with fingerprints all over them, hair in the paint, touchups done with the wrong color, broken parts, etc. Some of the 21st planes were horrible for quality control. They weren't worth a $1 at Walmart how bad they looked.
The 21st planes had paint problems as well. The BBI planes had their share of issues. Remember how the F-16 isn't actually 1/18 scale? Remember how the Apache has sagging rotor blades? These are toys that double as models, certain choices are made regarding design, paint and other factors. That is why a lot of companies have the little disclaimer "Product may differ from photo shown". I do remember 21st did use built 1/48 models to showcase some of their schemes and they showed better paint and detail than actually appeared on the production version.
We'll see when the time comes I suppose.
POST ALL JSE F-14 QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION HERE
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Coreyeagle48
- Officer - Brigadier General
- Posts: 2070
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:25 am
- Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Just sort of ticks me off when someone sells you on a product and at a price, showing us all these great pics with no disclaimers, representing the highest quality and standards of asembly and painting and then gives you something that is apparently significantly less...at the earlier, premium price.
And then when we as consumers/collectors noted the variation, we get chastized....
Now, I'm willing to wait for the 'in hand' reviews, but I for one will not be buying this thing if the noted discrepancies turn out to be true. It needs to be more than a big KMart airplane toy...
Maybe BC was tipping us off when it kept telling us: 'guys, these are just toys were talking about'.
Sorta like a dealer offering you a Porsche 911 and giving you a Boxster....nice cars both, but I thought I was getting (and paying for) the 911?!?
And then when we as consumers/collectors noted the variation, we get chastized....
Now, I'm willing to wait for the 'in hand' reviews, but I for one will not be buying this thing if the noted discrepancies turn out to be true. It needs to be more than a big KMart airplane toy...
Maybe BC was tipping us off when it kept telling us: 'guys, these are just toys were talking about'.
Sorta like a dealer offering you a Porsche 911 and giving you a Boxster....nice cars both, but I thought I was getting (and paying for) the 911?!?
Here are my thoughts on the subject: The F-14 is a plane that I frankly never thought we would ever see in 1:18. I think there is a lot riding on the success or failure of this plane. It's quite difficult on paper to justify the costs to develop these large birds. It's taken some serious guts for JSI to build it and it's a gamble that might not pay off (even if the paint was perfect). So as a fan of 1:18 I am generally very happy to see this plane at all.
What I have suspected all along: In the days of AREA-21 and 21C I was privy to many inside info and personally attended several planning meetings in person. I sat in on many interesting discussions about projects like this one. And- I ALWAYS suspected that people would pay the high watermark price tag. BUT- I also knew that if you took 200+ dollars away from collectors, expectations would shift! At that price, I felt that there would be no mercy or forgiveness for paint or build quality issues. As collectors, this kind of plane feels more like an "investment" than a casual purchase. customers now have a higher expectation. This is natural and there is little that can be done about it. It's one of the factors that toy makers have to consider at this price point.
What next: You guys can think this is wrong but trust me I know development costs associated. This plane will loose money for JSI for the first release paint scheme. It will likely loose money on a second scheme as well. Perhaps even a third release. You have to sell LOTS of these things over a period of several years and several paint schemes to get a return from the investment.
It gets worse: How many different scheme F-14's are you willing to buy up at 200+ bucks? Even if you are the kind of guy who says "I will buy every version they make" it's not enough! The masses have to be willing to buy multiples just to break even. (If you think I am wrong just look at Admiral Toys history). I know I am still waiting on a Dauntless that will never come, why? Because we didn't buy enough of the Me-262's and Sabers. and if 2 releases of each didn't get them profitable on a 50 dollar plane... Well doesn't look too good for the Tomcat, let alone the Eagle or Flanker. Make no mistake gentlemen- We ALL have to buy several Tomcats. Not 1 or 2. More like 5.
My point: I would not hesitate to buy an F-14 if you want one. I sincerely question the profitability position in the short term and that has everything to do with an ability for a long term. and I fear that the mighty F-15 and Flanker may fall victim to the ROI projections after the F-14. If large 1:18 scale projects have a future at all, it rests largely in the measure of success or failure of the sale figures for this Tomcat. (spots and all). I think i might just go ahead now and order a second tomcat.
Gotta make my own S2 scheme. Question is: Sundowners or Black Aces?
What I have suspected all along: In the days of AREA-21 and 21C I was privy to many inside info and personally attended several planning meetings in person. I sat in on many interesting discussions about projects like this one. And- I ALWAYS suspected that people would pay the high watermark price tag. BUT- I also knew that if you took 200+ dollars away from collectors, expectations would shift! At that price, I felt that there would be no mercy or forgiveness for paint or build quality issues. As collectors, this kind of plane feels more like an "investment" than a casual purchase. customers now have a higher expectation. This is natural and there is little that can be done about it. It's one of the factors that toy makers have to consider at this price point.
What next: You guys can think this is wrong but trust me I know development costs associated. This plane will loose money for JSI for the first release paint scheme. It will likely loose money on a second scheme as well. Perhaps even a third release. You have to sell LOTS of these things over a period of several years and several paint schemes to get a return from the investment.
It gets worse: How many different scheme F-14's are you willing to buy up at 200+ bucks? Even if you are the kind of guy who says "I will buy every version they make" it's not enough! The masses have to be willing to buy multiples just to break even. (If you think I am wrong just look at Admiral Toys history). I know I am still waiting on a Dauntless that will never come, why? Because we didn't buy enough of the Me-262's and Sabers. and if 2 releases of each didn't get them profitable on a 50 dollar plane... Well doesn't look too good for the Tomcat, let alone the Eagle or Flanker. Make no mistake gentlemen- We ALL have to buy several Tomcats. Not 1 or 2. More like 5.
My point: I would not hesitate to buy an F-14 if you want one. I sincerely question the profitability position in the short term and that has everything to do with an ability for a long term. and I fear that the mighty F-15 and Flanker may fall victim to the ROI projections after the F-14. If large 1:18 scale projects have a future at all, it rests largely in the measure of success or failure of the sale figures for this Tomcat. (spots and all). I think i might just go ahead now and order a second tomcat.
Gotta make my own S2 scheme. Question is: Sundowners or Black Aces?-
Black_Dragon_One
- Officer - Brigadier General
- Posts: 2032
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:23 pm
- Location: California
I agree with you on this...tko211 wrote:Here are my thoughts on the subject: The F-14 is a plane that I frankly never thought we would ever see in 1:18. I think there is a lot riding on the success or failure of this plane. It's quite difficult on paper to justify the costs to develop these large birds. It's taken some serious guts for JSI to build it and it's a gamble that might not pay off (even if the paint was perfect). So as a fan of 1:18 I am generally very happy to see this plane at all.
What I have suspected all along: In the days of AREA-21 and 21C I was privy to many inside info and personally attended several planning meetings in person. I sat in on many interesting discussions about projects like this one. And- I ALWAYS suspected that people would pay the high watermark price tag. BUT- I also knew that if you took 200+ dollars away from collectors, expectations would shift! At that price, I felt that there would be no mercy or forgiveness for paint or build quality issues. As collectors, this kind of plane feels more like an "investment" than a casual purchase. customers now have a higher expectation. This is natural and there is little that can be done about it. It's one of the factors that toy makers have to consider at this price point.
What next: You guys can think this is wrong but trust me I know development costs associated. This plane will loose money for JSI for the first release paint scheme. It will likely loose money on a second scheme as well. Perhaps even a third release. You have to sell LOTS of these things over a period of several years and several paint schemes to get a return from the investment.
It gets worse: How many different scheme F-14's are you willing to buy up at 200+ bucks? Even if you are the kind of guy who says "I will buy every version they make" it's not enough! The masses have to be willing to buy multiples just to break even. (If you think I am wrong just look at Admiral Toys history). I know I am still waiting on a Dauntless that will never come, why? Because we didn't buy enough of the Me-262's and Sabers. and if 2 releases of each didn't get them profitable on a 50 dollar plane... Well doesn't look too good for the Tomcat, let alone the Eagle or Flanker. Make no mistake gentlemen- We ALL have to buy several Tomcats. Not 1 or 2. More like 5.
My point: I would not hesitate to buy an F-14 if you want one. I sincerely question the profitability position in the short term and that has everything to do with an ability for a long term. and I fear that the mighty F-15 and Flanker may fall victim to the ROI projections after the F-14. If large 1:18 scale projects have a future at all, it rests largely in the measure of success or failure of the sale figures for this Tomcat. (spots and all). I think i might just go ahead now and order a second tomcat.
totally...
i buy two one special and one regular may be three if i can get there..
i ask some of the board member who saw the unpainted and i was expecting this..
so i love the f14 just being there $200 no problem...
i can save up each month for each plane i want
i am just thankful that this is being offer..
if i want repaint.. i buy two and pay a modeler some big cash to do it right...
gent...
it is in your hand... i say if you do not buy one and the company fail to make profit and you hit yourself for not doing so
I bought 2 f18 and never regret...
this is a hobby and we are very lucky for some one to step up to the plate and burden the cost on this...
remember it being made is a just a great in my book...
if i want i buy another one and let some one paint it professionally for the same cost of the plane...
but that is for future plan..
whats up doc....
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Jericoeagle1
- Officer - Major
- Posts: 978
- Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:15 pm
- Location: Yelm, Washington
Well let's compare:Coreyeagle48 wrote:If people have such a problem with this, that's totally fine. But no one can honestly tell me that these "spots" are as bad as some of the old 21st century planes with fingerprints all over them, hair in the paint, touchups done with the wrong color, broken parts, etc. Some of the 21st planes were horrible for quality control. They weren't worth a $1 at Walmart how bad they looked.
Brand spankin' new JSI Tomcat - $250 shipped
Discounted TBF Avenger/109/Sabre, etc at Walmart - $15-45.00
I don't think my expectations are out of line in wanting a nicely finished model. And yes, I have flaws on some of my 21C models. But those flaws didn't set me back $250.
The bottom line for me is that in my opinion, the production Tomcat doesn't look nearly as nice as the Paint Prototype we've all been shown. Tons of photos of this bird at the various shows, gave us the impression that we're getting a very nicely painted model. Given JSI's track record with their first three releases, many of us didn't think twice about the paint app until "Spotgate" and the Finished Production Photo posted today.
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Black_Dragon_One
- Officer - Brigadier General
- Posts: 2032
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:23 pm
- Location: California
that day is long gone.. i wish this was still that good...NWarty wrote:Well let's compare:Coreyeagle48 wrote:If people have such a problem with this, that's totally fine. But no one can honestly tell me that these "spots" are as bad as some of the old 21st century planes with fingerprints all over them, hair in the paint, touchups done with the wrong color, broken parts, etc. Some of the 21st planes were horrible for quality control. They weren't worth a $1 at Walmart how bad they looked.
Brand spankin' new JSI Tomcat - $250 shipped
Discounted TBF Avenger/109/Sabre, etc at Walmart - $15-45.00
I don't think my expectations are out of line in wanting a nicely finished model. And yes, I have flaws on some of my 21C models. But those flaws didn't set me back $250.
The bottom line for me is that in my opinion, the production Tomcat doesn't look nearly as nice as the Paint Prototype we've all been shown. Tons of photos of this bird at the various shows, gave us the impression that we're getting a very nicely painted model. Given JSI's track record with their first three releases, many of us didn't think twice about the paint app until "Spotgate" and the Finished Production Photo posted today.
hay i do not mine an in expensive f14.. but not going to happen..
wally world would never allow that...
the economy was better then too..
whats up doc....
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thatf14guy
- Officer - 1st Lieutenant
- Posts: 521
- Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:58 am
if your not happy with it, cancel it, and i'll buy it, more tomcats and repaints fo me, hook me up tko211, i love for you to do me a 1991 vf-84 flag tail or top gun aggressor tomcat.
but i think the real problem is we all have different opinions of what we want or expect. me i am completely satisfied with it, some people may disagree. don't be mad at the dealers but be mad or happy with the manufactor (jsi).
i am glad merit finally released these two photos, i pushed them into it yestarday to help ease the phoenix missile crisis that was building up, and the fact, yes, i do believe we have the right to see what we are buying.
it would be like going to a dealership and buying a new car but they have them all covered up and you can't see what your buying until you buy it. and well this ain't some communist country, sorry china.
but i think the real problem is we all have different opinions of what we want or expect. me i am completely satisfied with it, some people may disagree. don't be mad at the dealers but be mad or happy with the manufactor (jsi).
i am glad merit finally released these two photos, i pushed them into it yestarday to help ease the phoenix missile crisis that was building up, and the fact, yes, i do believe we have the right to see what we are buying.
it would be like going to a dealership and buying a new car but they have them all covered up and you can't see what your buying until you buy it. and well this ain't some communist country, sorry china.
Last edited by thatf14guy on Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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worldwar2buff
- Sergeant
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:35 am
- Location: Pittsburgh PA
I've been going back and forth on this one for awhile. I just can't justify the price for what you get based on all the comments. I have no skills to rectify any problems with this, but I'm too picky to not have it correct. At the price, I'm passing.
I've just now cancelled my pre-order with Aiken's.
I've just now cancelled my pre-order with Aiken's.
Last edited by worldwar2buff on Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Life is NOT a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in other, body thoroughly worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO” what a ride!
so the message you guys want to send jsi and other manufacturers is that we're a bunch of desperate collectors who will buy anything in this scale even if it is poorly presented and looks nothing like the paint master we saw and placed our pre-order money down on?
Let's them off the hook totally...good thinking guys. Also makes me wonder what other problems this bird might have. I mean if they can't even do a decent weathering job, what else is wrong with it? Wrongly painted ordnance...minor but annoying. Saggy undercarriage maybe? Wings that don't swing well, no pilot, we already know the answer to that one.
The bottom line is: this paint scheme is totally unacceptable at the premium price we are being charged. If this was selling for $90 i'd get it no problem and live with it or fix it up myself. No chance i am doing that for $250......none. And there is no way JSI should be let off the hook because we're desperate for a 1/18 fix. This paint job is a disgrace for a premium collectable.
Let's them off the hook totally...good thinking guys. Also makes me wonder what other problems this bird might have. I mean if they can't even do a decent weathering job, what else is wrong with it? Wrongly painted ordnance...minor but annoying. Saggy undercarriage maybe? Wings that don't swing well, no pilot, we already know the answer to that one.
The bottom line is: this paint scheme is totally unacceptable at the premium price we are being charged. If this was selling for $90 i'd get it no problem and live with it or fix it up myself. No chance i am doing that for $250......none. And there is no way JSI should be let off the hook because we're desperate for a 1/18 fix. This paint job is a disgrace for a premium collectable.
i never met an airplane i didn't like...
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Stug45
- Officer - Brigadier General
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- Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:16 pm
- Location: Orlando FL
Well said aferguson, If it was $90 i would say ok no big deal, but for almost $300 this is not rightaferguson wrote:so the message you guys want to send jsi and other manufacturers is that we're a bunch of desperate collectors who will buy anything in this scale even if it is poorly presented and looks nothing like the paint master we saw and placed our pre-order money down on?
Let's them off the hook totally...good thinking guys. Also makes me wonder what other problems this bird might have. I mean if they can't even do a decent weathering job, what else is wrong with it? Wrongly painted ordnance...minor but annoying. Saggy undercarriage maybe? Wings that don't swing well, no pilot, we already know the answer to that one.
The bottom line is: this paint scheme is totally unacceptable at the premium price we are being charged. If this was selling for $90 i'd get it no problem and live with it or fix it up myself. No chance i am doing that for $250......none. And there is no way JSI should be let off the hook because we're desperate for a 1/18 fix. This paint job is a disgrace for a premium collectable.
The mind is the limit. As long as the mind can envision the fact that you can do something, you can do it, as long as you really believe 100 percent.
It also seemed a bit odd that the yellow tips were being painted on by hand. with a brush. I can see that being the way to go on some difficult to reach details but on such a crisp contrast line it seemed like it would have been masked and sprayed.
I'm definitely holding off on my order now. I'll wait until someone gets one to review in hand.
I'm definitely holding off on my order now. I'll wait until someone gets one to review in hand.
Good Trader List
-Digger -Razor -Mowmaw -Flayrah -ThreeToughTrucks -jlspec -KWR190 -CW4USARMY -vmf214 -bravo5 -holensock -cranedriver -billgiff -Rowsdower -tparkhere
-Digger -Razor -Mowmaw -Flayrah -ThreeToughTrucks -jlspec -KWR190 -CW4USARMY -vmf214 -bravo5 -holensock -cranedriver -billgiff -Rowsdower -tparkhere
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King O' Fools
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exether_mega
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thatf14guy
- Officer - 1st Lieutenant
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My Pre-Order has been in since May 8th with MTS. It (The Tomcat) is now paid for in full.
I'm not cancelling my pre-order. Any paint glitches, I'll fix by hand.
And reading some other comments around the blogosphere makes me irritated. Like I should be kissing the feet of the 1:18 scale Gods. The "we should be happy to have this" type of comment makes me want to puke and is an extremely weak arguement to a so-so looking airplane with a large price point.
And by the way, from what I've seen of the pics. Can we really be sure that the pilot and RIO steps fold down in addition to the boarding ladder? They sure as hell look flush to me. Take a look. Also, Look at the black, anti-glare paint along the lines at the left rear of the cockpit section. Dude, that paint doesn't come close to matching up. It's where the forward nose section meets the belly and upper fuselage box.
Navigation lights, they look painted on instead of the clear plastic that have become industry standard.
I'm not cancelling my pre-order. Any paint glitches, I'll fix by hand.
And reading some other comments around the blogosphere makes me irritated. Like I should be kissing the feet of the 1:18 scale Gods. The "we should be happy to have this" type of comment makes me want to puke and is an extremely weak arguement to a so-so looking airplane with a large price point.
And by the way, from what I've seen of the pics. Can we really be sure that the pilot and RIO steps fold down in addition to the boarding ladder? They sure as hell look flush to me. Take a look. Also, Look at the black, anti-glare paint along the lines at the left rear of the cockpit section. Dude, that paint doesn't come close to matching up. It's where the forward nose section meets the belly and upper fuselage box.
Navigation lights, they look painted on instead of the clear plastic that have become industry standard.
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King O' Fools
- Officer - Captain
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Yes, the "but it's just a toy airplane, not a museum piece" JSI apology-slash-lovefest is in full swing over at Bad Cat's blog (and this time it ain't the mean kitty's fault). Some people seem to think Santa has taken over JSI and the F-14 is being released not because they expect to turn a profit, but because they want to make orphaned children happy this Christmas. 
If these are not toys anymore, and, clearly, they are NOT (remember what we were told when prices skyrocketed from $100 to $230+ in a matter of months? ― that these were short-run collectibles available only at specialty shops and online retailers because they were being aimed at a niche market, hence the higher pricetag?), then why on earth are we still pretending that these are "just toys?"
It seems as though people who have pre-order this thing keep bending over backwards to rationalize whatever it is they are getting when the F-14 shows up at their doorstep.
And then there’s the usual jab at SSHQ courtesy of one of the people who posts here. This is rich, considering this would be the same guy who was blowing a gasket over 'Spotgate' (and dissing Bad Cat) on this same board BEFORE the pics were even published.
If these are not toys anymore, and, clearly, they are NOT (remember what we were told when prices skyrocketed from $100 to $230+ in a matter of months? ― that these were short-run collectibles available only at specialty shops and online retailers because they were being aimed at a niche market, hence the higher pricetag?), then why on earth are we still pretending that these are "just toys?"
It seems as though people who have pre-order this thing keep bending over backwards to rationalize whatever it is they are getting when the F-14 shows up at their doorstep.
And then there’s the usual jab at SSHQ courtesy of one of the people who posts here. This is rich, considering this would be the same guy who was blowing a gasket over 'Spotgate' (and dissing Bad Cat) on this same board BEFORE the pics were even published.
Yeah, I noticed that in regards to my fuel tank comment.King O' Fools wrote:And then there’s the usual jab at SSHQ courtesy of one of the people who posts here. This is rich, considering this would be the same guy who was blowing a gasket over 'Spotgate' (and dissing Bad Cat) on this same board BEFORE the pics were even published.
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Jericoeagle1
- Officer - Major
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- Location: Yelm, Washington
What a bunch of whiners. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I'm a realist not an apologist, I've 34 years of model building experience.
It may be damn well impossible to get someone to make 1/18 birds with all this nit picking and complaining. I'm a model builder and I know sometimes it costs $$$ to make a good competition award winning model. Take a 1/32 second scale model from Trumpeteer or Tamiya. Its unbuilt, unpainted and it in itself will cost over 100+. Lets not even talk about the extra's to make it look good, like custom decals, airbrushing, photo-etch parts etc. Whats your labor worth to you? Do I think its a fair price? Yes because I know what goes into making a model five times smaller then that
If you want a perfect model, toy, or collectable, be prepared to pay for it, that's what I"m saying. I've charged up to 3000.00 dollars for custom models I've done for others and felt justified for it based on what they wanted and the work I did and they are a lot of work. Factory issued assembly line models don't have that luxury of tasking perfection and keeping prices down. If I were to make the comparison between what I've seen on the F-14 now and the price. I'd say it was a bargain.
Look at what that one European company is charging to make exact replica's of your favorite planes, thousands. If you want that level of attention to detail be prepared to pay. 21st Century did us NO favors by selling stuff through WalMart. It created an unrealistic expectation of this hobby. Like many things in life if you want quality you have to pay for it. In this economy this is the reality so live with it. Me, I'm going to buy my big ole birds and enjoy them, because I know if wanted better I'd have to pay a lot more and probably do it myself anyway.
I'm a realist not an apologist, I've 34 years of model building experience.
It may be damn well impossible to get someone to make 1/18 birds with all this nit picking and complaining. I'm a model builder and I know sometimes it costs $$$ to make a good competition award winning model. Take a 1/32 second scale model from Trumpeteer or Tamiya. Its unbuilt, unpainted and it in itself will cost over 100+. Lets not even talk about the extra's to make it look good, like custom decals, airbrushing, photo-etch parts etc. Whats your labor worth to you? Do I think its a fair price? Yes because I know what goes into making a model five times smaller then that
If you want a perfect model, toy, or collectable, be prepared to pay for it, that's what I"m saying. I've charged up to 3000.00 dollars for custom models I've done for others and felt justified for it based on what they wanted and the work I did and they are a lot of work. Factory issued assembly line models don't have that luxury of tasking perfection and keeping prices down. If I were to make the comparison between what I've seen on the F-14 now and the price. I'd say it was a bargain.
Look at what that one European company is charging to make exact replica's of your favorite planes, thousands. If you want that level of attention to detail be prepared to pay. 21st Century did us NO favors by selling stuff through WalMart. It created an unrealistic expectation of this hobby. Like many things in life if you want quality you have to pay for it. In this economy this is the reality so live with it. Me, I'm going to buy my big ole birds and enjoy them, because I know if wanted better I'd have to pay a lot more and probably do it myself anyway.
A little song, A little dance, A little seltzer down your pants!~~~Chuckles the Clown.
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thatf14guy
- Officer - 1st Lieutenant
- Posts: 521
- Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:58 am
what to say, what to say, i just post another message at badcat, i hope this will help to ease minds about me. but i have done a complete 180 with the tomcat, i like what i see. thats my opinion. some may differ, but that is what makes this a great country and not china. so i apologize if i affended some people. but i have literally stuck my neck out with jsi, bad cat, and merit international to get answers to all these questions. i hope you guys can forgive me.
anywhoiccky; i emailed merit requesting more pics, so hopefully they will post some better ones.
anywhoiccky; i emailed merit requesting more pics, so hopefully they will post some better ones.
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thatf14guy
- Officer - 1st Lieutenant
- Posts: 521
- Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:58 am
well said; this is a bargain i have actually talked to stateoftheartmodels ukJericoeagle1 wrote:What a bunch of whiners. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I'm a realist not an apologist, I've 34 years of model building experience.
It may be damn well impossible to get someone to make 1/18 birds with all this nit picking and complaining. I'm a model builder and I know sometimes it costs $$$ to make a good competition award winning model. Take a 1/32 second scale model from Trumpeteer or Tamiya. Its unbuilt, unpainted and it in itself will cost over 100+. Lets not even talk about the extra's to make it look good, like custom decals, airbrushing, photo-etch parts etc. Whats your labor worth to you? Do I think its a fair price? Yes because I know what goes into making a model five times smaller then that
If you want a perfect model, toy, or collectable, be prepared to pay for it, that's what I"m saying. I've charged up to 3000.00 dollars for custom models I've done for others and felt justified for it based on what they wanted and the work I did and they are a lot of work. Factory issued assembly line models don't have that luxury of tasking perfection and keeping prices down. If I were to make the comparison between what I've seen on the F-14 now and the price. I'd say it was a bargain.
Look at what that one European company is charging to make exact replica's of your favorite planes, thousands. If you want that level of attention to detail be prepared to pay. 21st Century did us NO favors by selling stuff through WalMart. It created an unrealistic expectation of this hobby. Like many things in life if you want quality you have to pay for it. In this economy this is the reality so live with it. Me, I'm going to buy my big ole birds and enjoy them, because I know if wanted better I'd have to pay a lot more and probably do it myself anyway.
they want $20,000 for a 1/18 f-14 that is insane, i could buy four or five ducted fan tomcats that fly for that much. so, i'm very glad jsi has brought to the table a more affordable 1/18 product line. but as i keep saying thats my opinion.
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King O' Fools
- Officer - Captain
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- Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:19 pm
Your premise is flawed. Sorry. It's not that the weathering was not done properly as in to the highest possible standards. It's that an F-14 full of random dark grey splotches is THE WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME.Jericoeagle1 wrote:What a bunch of whiners. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I'm a realist not an apologist, I've 34 years of model building experience.
It may be damn well impossible to get someone to make 1/18 birds with all this nit picking and complaining. I'm a model builder and I know sometimes it costs $$$ to make a good competition award winning model. Take a 1/32 second scale model from Trumpeteer or Tamiya. Its unbuilt, unpainted and it in itself will cost over 100+. Lets not even talk about the extra's to make it look good, like custom decals, airbrushing, photo-etch parts etc. Whats your labor worth to you? Do I think its a fair price? Yes because I know what goes into making a model five times smaller then that
If you want a perfect model, toy, or collectable, be prepared to pay for it, that's what I"m saying. I've charged up to 3000.00 dollars for custom models I've done for others and felt justified for it based on what they wanted and the work I did and they are a lot of work. Factory issued assembly line models don't have that luxury of tasking perfection and keeping prices down. If I were to make the comparison between what I've seen on the F-14 now and the price. I'd say it was a bargain.
Look at what that one European company is charging to make exact replica's of your favorite planes, thousands. If you want that level of attention to detail be prepared to pay. 21st Century did us NO favors by selling stuff through WalMart. It created an unrealistic expectation of this hobby. Like many things in life if you want quality you have to pay for it. In this economy this is the reality so live with it. Me, I'm going to buy my big ole birds and enjoy them, because I know if wanted better I'd have to pay a lot more and probably do it myself anyway.
JSI could have gone the the fresh-from-the-factory unweathered route. They would have saved themselves the embarrassment (and cancelled pre-orders), and the effort they put in creating the unrealistically weathered spot cat.
They are producing COLLECTIBLES. No. Not museum quality pieces. Not hand-crafted custom planes with all the bells and whistles (like HPH). Not award-winning models you could win a contest with. No. Mass produced 1:18 scale premium collectibles for $230+ apiece.
And what does this mean: "If you want a perfect model, toy, or collectable, be prepared to pay for it?"
Are you somehow suggesting that THIS MODEL IS UNDERPRICED? I mean, really?
JE,
I'm not expecting an Aires or Black Box level cockpit in my Tomcat. I'm not expecting opening bays complete with 100-part gatling guns, photo-etched radar dishes, seatbelts, leading edge slats, drooping control surfaces (ala shut-down hydraulics). Believe me, I also know what the costs are behind my models. Just to get my 1/16 Tiger I up to snuff is costing me 2-3x the initial price tag and no, it's not the Tamiya Tig. My stupid 1/48 Hasegawa F-8E, Aires cockpit, resin wing tips, engine and wheels bay, easily pushed the initial cost of my project well over $100.
I think many will agree with me in that we weren't expecting perfection. What we were expecting is a nicely painted model. I don't think most of us expected three part pre-shading on panels or oil washes on the nose gear. Just a nicely painted model. IMO it's not whining, I think it's realistic expectations based off of what was shown to us by JSI and Merit.
There are some things in the picture that bother me, if indeed they are accurate. Here, I'll list them.
- Paint job: i.e. large spots, anti-glare paint not lined up
- Ordinance: Minor paint inaccuracies, but still annoying. Anyone seen those drop tanks yet?
- Lights. They look painted on. Every release in the past three years has had them including 21C, BBI and Admiral. These are, like I said above, industry standard
- Boarding ladder and steps. We were told it would include them. Well, they look flush to me.
The bottom line is that JSI and Merit set those expectations through their website, photos, conventions, paint prototype, etc. We didn't know the features until JSI fed them to us.
Customers didn't set those expectations, JSI did.
I'm not expecting an Aires or Black Box level cockpit in my Tomcat. I'm not expecting opening bays complete with 100-part gatling guns, photo-etched radar dishes, seatbelts, leading edge slats, drooping control surfaces (ala shut-down hydraulics). Believe me, I also know what the costs are behind my models. Just to get my 1/16 Tiger I up to snuff is costing me 2-3x the initial price tag and no, it's not the Tamiya Tig. My stupid 1/48 Hasegawa F-8E, Aires cockpit, resin wing tips, engine and wheels bay, easily pushed the initial cost of my project well over $100.
I think many will agree with me in that we weren't expecting perfection. What we were expecting is a nicely painted model. I don't think most of us expected three part pre-shading on panels or oil washes on the nose gear. Just a nicely painted model. IMO it's not whining, I think it's realistic expectations based off of what was shown to us by JSI and Merit.
There are some things in the picture that bother me, if indeed they are accurate. Here, I'll list them.
- Paint job: i.e. large spots, anti-glare paint not lined up
- Ordinance: Minor paint inaccuracies, but still annoying. Anyone seen those drop tanks yet?
- Lights. They look painted on. Every release in the past three years has had them including 21C, BBI and Admiral. These are, like I said above, industry standard
- Boarding ladder and steps. We were told it would include them. Well, they look flush to me.
The bottom line is that JSI and Merit set those expectations through their website, photos, conventions, paint prototype, etc. We didn't know the features until JSI fed them to us.
Customers didn't set those expectations, JSI did.
Last edited by NWarty on Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.