BBI Pavehawk helicopter

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:48 am

OK I need you guys who want this upgrade kit to chime in.

Spuds pics are great !!! In the last 2 he has up shows both of the mounts to 134 mini. The out side pintel/mount ( shown with no gun) and the inside mounted square tubular support/pintel.

LET ME KNOW WHICH ONE YOU GUYS PREFER.

I know how I want to do the fuel probe. I will make it fit around the landing gear fairing. The BBI kit has that big step arm. The fuel boom has the step arm mounted to the fuel booms base. Would you guys want me to make it scale with the step mounted to the boom? Or make it stepless and keep the BBI were it is. The location is about the same. So if unless you really want things scale scale it should work by leaving it alone.

Spud your right the radomes look the same size. The centerline one would be a lot easier to do than the one that is mounted on the port side. Doing both would not be all that big of a deal. I HOPE.

I got my BBI Pavehawk in on friday from Fox Hole Toys. Man this thing is HUGE. I have it on my coffe table and it looks so cool. Mrs. Spike is already on my case about getting it out of " her " house and this is not a toys store , yada, yada ,yada. I need to fight her on this one.

YOU GUYS REALLY NEED TO LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU WANT ON THESE DETAILS ONCE IT IS DONE IT IS DONE. DOING BOTH WOULD BE A LOT OF WORK AND WILL DELAY THE PROJECT. Maybe once things are rolling I could do both gun mounts , it all depends on sells.

I have a few more things to tie up before I start on this. I am also waiting for a 1/35 pavehawk kit to come in . Once I get it I can start.

One last thing.

When I start , do you guys want a step by step or just show the finished pieces ? Also do you guys want me to keep this project on this same post or make a new one?

Thanks
Matthew

KWR190 · Post by **KWR190** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:29 am

[quote="pickelhaube"]OK I need you guys who want this upgrade kit to chime in.

Spuds pics are great !!! In the last 2 he has up shows both of the mounts to 134 mini. The out side pintel/mount ( shown with no gun) and the inside mounted square tubular support/pintel.

LET ME KNOW WHICH ONE YOU GUYS PREFER.

I know how I want to do the fuel probe. I will make it fit around the landing gear fairing. The BBI kit has that big step arm. The fuel boom has the step arm mounted to the fuel booms base. Would you guys want me to make it scale with the step mounted to the boom? Or make it stepless and keep the BBI were it is. The location is about the same. So if unless you really want things scale scale it should work by leaving it alone.

When I start , do you guys want a step by step or just show the finished pieces ? Also do you guys want me to keep this project on this same post or make a new one?

I say stepless for the boom would that make it easier on you

On the gun mount I like the out side mount but ill take what you make.
Im down for a full kit

B-29 · Post by **B-29** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:51 am

I'll take a full kit and two extra sets of miniguns.

pcsguy88 · Post by **pcsguy88** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:06 am

Simple and cheap sounds good to me. I just want the dual miniguns. Do you have a BBI Apache? I need a set of the rocket pods if possible to complete mine.

JohnLumley · Post by **JohnLumley** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:26 am

Hi Matthew:

Put me down for a full kit and an extra set of mini-guns.

On the mini-gun mounts I would be happy with whatever version you make. So my answer is to keep it simple on the manufacturing end.

Thank you for bringing some excitement back to 1:18.

pcoughran · Post by **pcoughran** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:40 am

I think it is best to go easiest/cheapest for you. Inside mount for the miniguns would probably be easiest for you (would require us to cut the window out). Outside mount looks more complicated for you, but would allow us to leave the window closed. I'd rather have the indoor mount.
I don't think the probe needs the step. Regardless, I'll get a set no matter what everyone decides is best.
As far as the radomes go. I think there is probably more interest in making the pavehawk version as it is the least complicated for us to convert (don't have to repaint the whole bird). That's the one I want to do now.
I would ultimately like to do a SOAR DAP version (all black) and I have another pavehawk set aside for that as well. Besides the radomes differences the DAP version always has the IR detectors on top of the nose. The pavehawk often does not have the IR detectors so it could be done with just the fuel probe, radomes, and miniguns.
In addition, the DAP version always has the smaller ordnance arms with one hardpoint instead of two. It usually has a M230 cannon/chain gun under one side and either a rocket pod, stinger missles, or AGM 114 Hellfire missles under the other side. If I'm not mistaken, in early test versions of the DAP they had it set up with the larger ordnance wings with two hardpoints on each side (similar to the BBI pavehawk in size although BBIs only has 1 hardpoint on each side). These early versions were too heavy and flight characteristics were not where they wanted them to be so they ultimately dropped the larger ordnance wings for the smaller ones. Someone correct me on this if they know different.

Here's a 1/35 model showing the singles hardpoints smaller wings

Here's a picture of the earlier test version with larger wings

Notice this one didn't have the IR detectors on top of the nose or the fuel probe. I think all operational DAP versions have the IR detectors now and the fuel probe, more evidence that this is an early test version. Probably had to give up ordnance for the fuel probe.

I think the pavehawk version is best way to go for now and see how much response you get with it before trying to make too many variations on parts.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:08 am

Extra ordenance, hardpoint guns, infared , chaffe shooters , .50 cal mounts , extra wings , fuel probes , door guns , center radome , port radomes , doors cut , camo paint , black paint. My head is spinning.

With all this stuff there will be some tricked out helos out there.

HardenSteel · Post by **HardenSteel** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:04 pm

Hi Matt,

I would like to include a full kit and two extra sets of miniguns, in addition to the M113 stuff we already discussed,

Many Thanks!

HD

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:52 pm

Mat’ n All

Just a quick note about the mini-gun mounts, from my initial observations, I've got this strong feeling that the external mounts are used on the USAF HH-60's (Pavehawks) while internal mounts are used on the Army MH-60's (SOAR) ones.

If this is true, for the sake of accuracy the decision on which gun mount to make/supply should then be based on the aircraft it is intended for, for me as I’m looking to fit out my existing green Blackhawk the internal gun fit and centreline radome are then the correct combination, whilst those wanting to upgrade their fancy painted USAF birds (like the one you just got Mat’) then the external gun mounts and side mounted radar would be the way to go.

I’d suggest to not include the step and to leave the BBI one intact, if the end user wants to get serious they can cut move their own step where needed.

Also you may want to do a forth kit option for those who want an Army version but do not wish to cut the crew chief windows open and only supply the boom, radar, sensor, etc but not the gun mounts?

A step by step progress in the same thread please.

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:04 pm

Again, I vote for the internal gun mounts.

I too would like to create the Army SOAR version with mine.

I'd leave the step alone.

If you have the time, a step by step would be great.

Thanks again..

pcoughran · Post by **pcoughran** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:09 pm

Spudkopf wrote:Mat’ n All

Just a quick note about the mini-gun mounts, from my initial observations, I've got this strong feeling that the external mounts are used on the USAF HH-60's (Pavehawks) while internal mounts are used on the Army MH-60's (SOAR) ones.

If this is true, for the sake of accuracy the decision on which gun mount to make/supply should then be based on the aircraft it is intended for, for me as I’m looking to fit out my existing green Blackhawk the internal gun fit and centreline radome are then the correct combination, whilst those wanting to upgrade their fancy painted USAF birds (like the one you just got Mat’) then the external gun mounts and side mounted radar would be the way to go.

I’d suggest to not include the step and to leave the BBI one intact, if the end user wants to get serious they can cut move their own step where needed.

Also you may want to do a forth kit option for those who want an Army version but do not wish to cut the crew chief windows open and only supply the boom, radar, sensor, etc but not the gun mounts?

A step by step progress in the same thread please.

Almost every camo HH-60 pavehawk I've seen has the internal mounts. Most of the grey versions have external mounts. I don't know if the grey paint scheme is the newer version (don't see too many camos any more). Since BBI's is the camo version the internal mounts would be what you see most of the time on those birds.

Like PH said - too many people are starting to want too many options. Make the simplest solution first and see what the interest is. Next people will start calling for the chaff dispensers and additional antennae?

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:15 pm

pcoughran wrote:
Spudkopf wrote:Mat’ n All

Just a quick note about the mini-gun mounts, from my initial observations, I've got this strong feeling that the external mounts are used on the USAF HH-60's (Pavehawks) while internal mounts are used on the Army MH-60's (SOAR) ones.

If this is true, for the sake of accuracy the decision on which gun mount to make/supply should then be based on the aircraft it is intended for, for me as I’m looking to fit out my existing green Blackhawk the internal gun fit and centreline radome are then the correct combination, whilst those wanting to upgrade their fancy painted USAF birds (like the one you just got Mat’) then the external gun mounts and side mounted radar would be the way to go.

I’d suggest to not include the step and to leave the BBI one intact, if the end user wants to get serious they can cut move their own step where needed.

Also you may want to do a forth kit option for those who want an Army version but do not wish to cut the crew chief windows open and only supply the boom, radar, sensor, etc but not the gun mounts?

A step by step progress in the same thread please.
Almost every camo HH-60 pavehawk I've seen has the internal mounts. Most of the grey versions have external mounts. I don't know if the grey paint scheme is the newer version (don't see too many camos any more). Since BBI's is the camo version the internal mounts would be what you see most of the time on those birds.

Like PH said - too many people are starting to want too many options. Make the simplest solution first and see what the interest is. Next people will start calling for the chaff dispensers and additional antennae?

This project looks like it will be popular. I can't wait to get that 1/35 scale model in. Then it is clobbering ... I mean customizing time . Sorry

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:45 pm

For the umpteenth of who knows how many times I've just had my Blackhawk out trying to look at the best way to cut the crew chief windows without doing any major disassembly, sadly as with every other time I but my bird back up on the shelf no closer to any kind of solution.

So it was not a total waste I also took a closer look at how to fix ordnance arms support struts. The way that these are wrongly connect to underside of the inner hard point has annoyed me since day one. Seeing the base plates of hard points are screwed in place it should be a tad easier to fix this error, even better if I could get hold of a second set of base plates from the outer hard points this would make things even easier.

So if anybody has a set of removed/unused ordnance arms that they’d be willing to sell me that would be great, a second set of drop tanks would be super as well.

Next correction those pesci backward fitted main cargo doors

dcway · Post by **dcway** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:04 pm

Hi
Whats the process to order these items ...
i got a good deal on some mh-60's and want to deck them out....
I got 5 comming

Dana (dcway)

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:38 pm

dcway wrote:Hi
Whats the process to order these items ...
i got a good deal on some mh-60's and want to deck them out....
I got 5 comming
Dana (dcway)

We are not quite ready but getting close. Right now Fox Hole Toys (Matt) and me Pickelhaube ( Matthew) will be doing this together. We are close to coming up with prices but not quite there yet. Prototypes will be started this week. Hopefully I can get some pics of the pieces parts to post.

Matt and I have been going back and forth on what to do and I think we are close on this as well.

1.I think we may leen to the exterior posts for the mini guns. This will be more work because I need to make an amo box. The reason behind this is that NO modification needs to be done to the helo to accept them. WITH THE OUTSIDE MOUNT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CUT OUT THE FRONT WINDOWS.

2. The main kit will have the fuel boom and radome with center sensor. I will make both versions of the radome side and center. The center later as the kit progesses.

As the kit progresses I will probably do the chafe boxes and possibly some fixed mini guns for the Huey.

Also this is not the right thread but there is a lot of interst in a stretched Huey kit. If anybody is interested in this let me know. I hope to make this a simple insert. Cut your Huey put the extension in and rock and roll.

Again if anybody is interested in a Huey kit LET ME KNOW.

B-29 · Post by **B-29** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:40 pm

A Huey kit would be awesome!

USCGSARdog · Post by **USCGSARdog** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:10 am

I am certainly looking forward to the Pavehawk kit, it is long over due. Things seem to be progressing well and I can't wait to see a few mock-up pics. Put me down for a full kit.

Speaking of a Huey stretch kit, something I have always wanted was a UH-1N to go along with my Cobras. Many of the parts could be lifted from the 21C Cobra, either to fit to the finished model or to make molds from, thus reducing production time a little. I know there are a lot of differences between the C and N model Hueys, but I think this could be done. I think it would be pretty popular too. What do you think?

-Rob

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:47 pm

Does anyone know which USAF squadron the BBI MH-60G belongs to?

Tambo · Post by **Tambo** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:59 pm

For each one of you that make a kick ass 160th bird and post picks I'll send you some unit patches and swag to go with your display free. I'm planning on making 2 of them to go in my classroom to help teach my students here on the SOAR airfield at Ft. Cambell.

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:30 pm

Tambo wrote:For each one of you that make a kick ass 160th bird and post picks I'll send you some unit patches and swag to go with your display free. I'm planning on making 2 of them to go in my classroom to help teach my students here on the SOAR airfield at Ft. Cambell.

G'day Tambo

That is a really generous offer, not that I really need much incentive to do a 160th bird, cause everybody knows that SOAR choppers ROCK!

Do you know if the 160th ever operated green Blackhawks in the current SOAR configuration?

If I ever do get hold of a second Blackhawk (sadly this is unlikely due to space and $ limitations) it will be done up in my equally favourite scheme (and arguably the sexiest looking Blackhawks on the planet), that of the Australian Army Aus-Cam painted birds.

….. but I’m a tad biased

Tambo · Post by **Tambo** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:23 pm

Spud all our Birds are black. the 47E's were green, but they have all been painted and now all the 47Gs are straight black as well. Years ago when the unit was first formed the 60s were green.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:01 pm

Man those Ausie choppers looks sweet with that camo job.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:36 am

Hey Guys ,
What is the deal with the wheel skids ? Were, when and why were they used ? Any interest in them ?

pcoughran · Post by **pcoughran** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:59 am

I'm guessing the wheel skids I think you're talking about are for use in Arctic environments? I've seen the blackhawks up in Alaska outfitted with the skids (I'm guessing for snow). I think I've seen them in the desert as well - maybe for really sandy terrain where the wheels might sink in too much?
I can't believe you're suggesting even more additions LOL. The fuel probe, mini guns, radomes (both versions), chaff dispensers, IR detectors aren't enough? If you really want to make more work, I think a few people would be interested in the single hardpoint ordnance wings for the DAP version. These same folks might want a M230 30mm chain gun as well. If they have an Apache they could take that one off and modify it or make a mold and then modify it, but many don't have the time/skill to do it.

On the pavehawk version, If you don't want to display it with the ordnance arms because you have a fuel probe now, then you are left with an ugly partial attachment that is much bigger than it should be and isn't finished (has the big hole where the ordnance arm should be attached).

I was planning on just removing the whole piece and filling in the small gap and touching it up to look like this one.

It would be nice to have a piece that was the right scale to put in here with a finished end on it that is the right size so it could look like this one.

Like I said before though I'm just happy to be getting the fuel probe, mini guns, and radomes.
You're awesome.

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:56 am

Oh yeah!! You're on the same thought path I've been walking down.

I've already talked to Pickelhaube about the 30mm chain gun and sent him some info on it. Hope he can make one.

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BBI Pavehawk helicopter

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Re: blackhawks