Simple B-25 question

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:55 am

This is something that I truly don't want to get involved in again, yet here I am doing it.

21c's game of "oneupmanship" involving toys destroyed my enjoyment of discovering 1/18 stuff. To their credit, I discovered this stuff only two years ago due to the newly opened WallyWorld here that at that time carried 21c (seemingly for that last time). To my absolute disgust they choose the exchange my childhood joy for the opportunity to cheatshot anyone else that chose to enter their arena. Even worse, it's one that they seem to be leaving themselves!!

No, I do not expect 21c to release the F-4, B-25, or MiG-21. The goal has been achieved by preventing anyone else from releasing what they themselves would not otherwise do at this kind off level.

Don't misunderstand me, I've gotten their quad 50 trailer as well as examples of all their armour, halftracks, and softskins and look forward to the '88 as well. I only feel distaste to the practice of playing games to keep anyone else from adding the that list without actually keeping their own word.

Alright, I'm done now and will go away.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:42 pm

I don’t think 21st is trying to prevent any one from making any products, I do think there is enough market share out their to support two different companies making the same aircraft, vehicle or tank….I am getting tired of 21st bashing … if 21st did have a change of business in regards to 1/118 aircraft being sold at WM I would think that is the big reason why we have not seen any of the big birds they announced last year.

As for the a-10 it would seem that 21st does thing in terms of eras WWII Korea, Vietnam and modern and I don’t see to many modern stuff from 21st that has been released.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:56 pm

I wish TKO would ask Roy if there is going to be a B-25. He would not have to tell us when, just if they will make the B-25?

aktiger · Post by **aktiger** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:14 pm

I also don't think 21c is "one upping" the competition with the B-25 announcement. I think their intentions were probably to follow through, but complications with the design production process, and/or receiving unfavorable responses from retailers, has changed the decision or the timing.
Keep in mind, other than RC or custom jobs, no one has ever undertaken the manufacturing and sale of as large of a mass marketed, pre-painted, partially assembled, plastic model before. It's highly unlikely that a small, start up manufacturer was considering such project and that 21c was concerned about the competition.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:21 pm

I see your point, but don't you think 21st Century should have looked at all these complications before they announced an 18th scale B-25 on their website?

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:21 pm

Sabrefan wrote:I see your point, but don't you think 21st Century should have looked at all these complications before they announced an 18th scale B-25 on their website?

I think they would have looked at all the problems that a 1/18th b-25 would have along with all the market information to suggest that it is viable for production, the only fly in the ointment would be any problems with the large retailers and the economy….

I do fear if the economy does have a rapid slow down then the only thing we will see are repaints and more repaints. Since I do suspect they get some credit to do tooling and production of new items, credit might be hard to find. And we cant blame 21st for a rescission or a decision of a major retailer to change it’s mind on a product, after it has been announced…….If think they are going to do the best they can to bring the b-25,f-4,mig-21 to market, but they will not do it if it means financial ruin for 21st century toys …………….

I think we should all be cheering for 21st to get new markets and new retailers instead of boo hooing them.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:38 pm

The motor pool has them on their upcoming list for February and march 2008 I don’t know how long it has been since they have updated their website.

F-4, 88, and the king tiger
February 2008

http://www.themotorpool.net/SearchResul ... e=&Search=

Mig 21
March 2008
http://www.themotorpool.net/SearchResul ... e=&Search=

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:19 pm

Holy cow, pardon me while I pick my jaw up off the floor!!

Great find.

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:21 pm

i dont' know what ot make of that. The pics of the 88 and KT are up to date, so one would think all the info is too.

HMMM...

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:21 pm

Chunks it could be old news I dont know???but I do hope it is a sign from the 1/18th gods.

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:29 pm

aferguson wrote:i dont' know what ot make of that. The pics of the 88 and KT are up to date, so one would think all the info is too.

HMMM...

I agree, they show the Me-262 nightfighter as "in-transit" which is the same as badcat, so it appears their info is up to date. Im surprised none of the other etailers have them listed yet. But it sure looks good for the home team about now!

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:30 pm

I don't know exactly how much help I can be on this thread as I know only some of the details myself. But also I think there are some pretty obvious challenges that face any release of large 1:18 scale planes that add to the mystery of these aircraft.

I do know that these projects all have had time, money and energy invested into the construction of all 3. My understanding at this time is that the F-4 is the furthest along in that process that typically takes anywhere from 1-3 years to complete. The F-4 was fast tracked onto a 1 year time table in light of news that another was under construction as part of a larger Vietnam program. (Platoon & new Vietnam figs are parts & proof of that).

Then a funny thing happend mid year of 07. 1:18 planes were simply not as attractive to WM buyers in the qty that we all were used to. The change was unexpected and strange to say the least. Not a big secret there! Not too easy to find large planes at WM lately right? So as a business, which 21C in fact is... that is just reason to say ok hold the press. Where are we at. (at least on the huge projects that WM seems to want a vacation from!

So I dunno, take a look around and tell me if those pieces fit? Or perhaps I am way off base?

But is all lost? I really do not think so! TRU has obviously just come back on-line and they seem to like big stuff just fine! And WM IS NOT DONE at all! 21C stuff still sells very very well there. If anyone wants to form a lynch mob lets go over to WM and make them buy the really big planes tomorrow!

Ok so reality here- I think that there is some disruption and a little concern for the details of how and when it all comes back together. Trust me when I say that 21C and us fans can all agree on one point! They want to sell planes and you want to buy planes! It's the middle men that have to be, well- in the middle of it all.

So it's now a hurry up and wait situation! There is another situation happening right now in the TV and Movie biz.... The writer strike is causing a disruption in development of new material. That disruption is only now starting to take effect. No new episodes on TV! Will TV come back? I am pretty darn sure it will just a matter of the details and the time.

Great news is that NOT everything is disrupted- just some of the more agressive / larger projects. So for the record these were are teases, these are not elements of some large plan to one-up or play second fiddle or whatever. 21st makes what they think you want to buy! They do want to build these planes!

So lets hang in there and see where the road leads. I choose to remain more than just hopeful.

my 2 cents.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:35 pm

Thank you Tko for the info.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:37 pm

Yep 262 nightfighters are on schedule for the ETA quoted by BCA. It was about 3 weeks later that expected and planned as it was a DEC release... but it's pretty close considered. The King Tiger and 88 are very close behind as I have been told. Both of those are in final paint samples so you pretty much know for certain.

I got word that we will see a couple re-paints on some products in 1:18 as well. So we might see some old favorites come back with fresh schemes on them. No word on what yet, but stuff is on the radar. Also there is some all new figs in the works I have details but can't share yet. But people should be pleased-cool stuff and COOL detials... No Frech freedom fighters yet though- DAMN! really wanted those for my dioramas bad! LOL

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:42 pm

Thanks for the info TKO.

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:44 pm

VMF115:

February?...that's only one month away. I'll delay the BBI F-4J and F6F Cat Mouth for a Steve Ritchie F-4D.
However, Motorpool earlier had listed the F-4D at around pre-order of $89.99. The Jan. 8 update didn't show a price. I wonder if the price is now higher for those who didn't pre-order.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:47 pm

dragon53 wrote:VMF115:

February?...that's only one month away. I'll delay the BBI F-4J and F6F Cat Mouth for a Steve Ritchie F-4D (but I'd have to build a hangar to put it in at 41" long).

Those dates are probably not set in stone.
As we all know with this hobby.

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:51 pm

VMF115:

I wonder what happened to Motorpool's F-4D pre-order price of $89.99?

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:55 pm

* Yes "tko211" , we all do appreciate new news , although vague at times and sounds like a "smoke-screen".

* We shall all "WAIT and SEEeeeeee".

Mitch v MG

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:06 pm

MG-42,

"I find your lack of faith disturbing" Excuse me I now have to get back to cooking sith cookies

J/K

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:09 pm

I have no problem waiting - thanks for the updates and 2 cents TKO...

My 2 cents regarding planes not selling well at WM - this was WM's fault - people see and want to buy the planes - but they know if they sit back and wait - the plane will go on clearance...
everybody is waiting for the price to go down -

secondly - people don't want to buy planes in destroyed boxes with missing parts.
Also more people making purchases online these days - WM should place the planes on their online store at the same price they sell at the stores....

Same thing will happen with FOV at Target - people will see the new tanks and pass on them beause we all know they will be half off in a month or two....
ok maybe that was three cents

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:22 pm

well i find it more than just a little astounding too see the F4 and Mig 21 on preorder anywhere. Motorpool usually have their facts pretty straight, and i'm sure Lightning would be willing and able to comment, were he to see these posts....but he usually hangs out on the small scale forum and may not see them.

Perhaps these projects have been far further along then we were lead to believe? If they come out in the first half of this year i'll be amazed, let alone next month and the month after.

I wonder if the S1 paint job on the Mig will be vietnamese or Russian? I would guess Vietnamese, to stay within the Vietnam theme. Certainly a wealth of interesting repaint potential for that bird.

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:41 pm

Can anyone recommend a good sauce for crow?

KAMIKAZE · Post by **KAMIKAZE** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:41 pm

Cross your fingers.

Morian Miner · Post by **Morian Miner** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:45 pm

The Mig-21 is the big one for me. That will definitely be a multiple purchase. I've tried not to get too excited about it - after the time it took for the Avenger to reach the market, I figured it best to be patient.

Might be time to go back through my references and see which eastern block schemes have the most conversion potential, and start hoping. But, must not get too excited....must remain calm....

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Simple B-25 question

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