This seems wrong, what do you think???

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:39 pm

Perhaps it does seem unfair that Bad Cat and any other retailer should opt to take the last few pieces of the inventory that they bought and set it aside with the hope of making a bit more on it rather than selling it at just above cost just to get rid of it. But they are in the business to make money--and if this helps them do so, and continue to offer us exclusives, then I don't mind. I'd rather have the chance to get one at $60 when they first come out and have the option of paying $300 if I missed it and REALLY want it than not having the opion of getting it at all. Would it have been better to come out right at the beginning and say "We are producing a limited quantity that my have collectible value someday, therefore, the price is $250 each"? I doubt they would have sold many at that price either. Nor do I suspect that they could predict the price taking off like it did. I can think of countless other XD aircraft built in even fewer numbers that aren't bringing that kind of price.

If anything, my suggestion is that Bad Cat revive the e-bay seller's ID they used a couple years ago when they were selling Blue Angel F/A-18 on ebay for $100+ while they were still $80 at Bad Cat's website. At least that way, no one considers it part of the same business and feels they are being swindled. And Rob can add a disclaimer to every product he sells notifying customers that he reserves the right to post the last 12 on e-bay, and show a countdown to those 12. That way it's all transparent and up front.

And once we complete the crusade against this with XD, we can move onto Star Wars, comic books, stamps. PEZ dispensers, etc. Maybe then I wouldn't have paid $180 on ebay for a Dragon 1/6 Jin Roh figure with some hobby shop's "was $49.95 now $25" clearance sticker on it. But I wanted it--and didn't get one when they first came out, so I paid the premium--voluntarily. I bet the hobby shop just wishes they could have sold it at $50

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:03 pm

Greetings:

BadCat has a right to do whatever it wants with its product, fair or not. They are in the business to make money, and they can make money however they feel like it. If they want to pay the ebay fees and selling the last of their inventory on ebay, then they are allowed to do that. There is no law against it. We do not have the information BadCat does, perhaps sales slowed on their website, we just don't know, and really, it doesn't matter. BadCat has a right to do whatever they want with their items.

One has to remember that Ebay is a very competitive place to shop. One can easily become caught up in the moment. Even real auctions are that way. The nature of the competition drives people to bid higher prices for items they normally would not pay. Prices inflate on ebay rather quickly. Plus, ebay reaches people all over the world. Some of the people bidding on the Zeroes may not know about BadCat as an online store, so it gives them access to the piece.

A good consumer only pays what they think the item is worth. Take for example produce at a grocery store. When oranges are on sale, I buy them. But in the winter months when the price gets steep and they don't really taste that good, I hold off. When I buy things for my collection, I set a price I will pay for the item, and that's it. Now if it is $5 more I will probably kick in the extra cash, but generally I set a limit and that's it. The Zeroes will level out in pricing. Right now it happens that a certain seller on ebay has offered several of them and they are in demand. These aren't the last Zeroes in the world, and as collections change hands and people tire of them more will become available or they will be rereleased. By listing them on ebay and getting extra dollars, BadCat is very smart. For the people paying insane amounts on ebay, they are the ones that will be complaining it is unfair later. Yet, they were the ones that clicked the "Bid Now" button on Ebay.

Jolly Roger · Post by **Jolly Roger** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:19 pm

how dare Badcat make up for those losses on clearence product that people asked for and obviously didnt buy the "Ill Buy 10!" that they said they would.

how dare some a hole bids up that Zero so that i cant buy it at clearence becuase i complain about quality, but i dont want to pay the retail price.

how dare Ebay allow items to go for such rediculous prices!

HOW DARE!!!!

this is a Satirical way of saying, dont blame other people becuase you
didnt buy the said item at the time it was readily available.
you waited, and you lost the chance, now burn with the high ebay prices we have all suffered through on different items.
That we may or may have not passed on when they were cheaper.

its the nature of the collector beast, id do the same thing in thier shoes, no doubt id do it on anything high in demand that was not a Current rotating piece of Stock. All the collector oriented stores do it.

Small joes got a ton of old "The Corps!" figures in that are NO longer avilable to order, and put them up on ebay.. why becuase they arent for sale anymore.. and hence "collectible". The failed logic of some people just amazes me.

welcome to collectible's hobby, where prices are sometimes higher then retail, and your own fellow man is who rasies them.

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:29 pm

Actually, the bigger question to me (and maybe worthy of its own thread) is where is this very recent enthusiasm coming from? Aircraft that used to rarely break $70-80 are now going for $300 or more. And a Panzer IV just broke $300? What next--$250 for a Mutt or WC51?
I guess the part that has me baffled: we are probably the largest organized group of XD enthusiasts, and many of us have ties to other colletors forums. And as best we can tell, we're not behind this sudden bidding frenzy.

Is there a wave of new collectors with deep pockets out there, playing catch up at any cost? Or is word getting out about the relatively low production numbers (compared to many "collectible" toys) and fueling a lot of speculation (when the stock market takes a dump, maybe XD is the new replacement for treasury bonds).

I just find it rather strange--especially because it isn't just one particular plane, but a lot of them, including many that seemed to be shelf-warmers like the Galland and Nightfighter ME-109E.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:40 pm

Things like this are cyclical with all collectables. From tea cups to exotic cars.

Three or four years ago the first wave of XD vehicles started fetching big bucks with the Corsair and Lou P-51 leading the way. Then it cooled dramatcially.

Now, for whatever reason, it's heated up again. No doubt because supplly of out of production items, isn't keeping up with current demand. It probably means a wave of new people coming on board this scale, perhaps because the 'variety threshhold' has been passed for alot of people.

By that i mean that many people are unwilling to commit to a new scale until they feel there is enough variety of interesting subject matter available. So, if there are only a handful of planes available in a certain scale, many people wont' get interested in collecting that scale until they see the variety of subjects available increase to a certain point and then they will jump in with both feet.......and be in the position of having to scramble after items that are scarce. (I think we're beginning to see this 'variety threshhold' effect very clearly in 1/18 armour which is definitely getting alot more popular now. Variety has increased in the range and so, more people are now willing to commit to the scale. This is a good thing for us).

The other reason for the sudden high prices is because it's a bit of a feeding frenzy too. People panic that prices are getting high and to them that means the item is getting really hard to find and so start grabbing stuff now, to 'get one while they still can'....almost a form of panic buying....you see that in real estate all the time.

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:48 pm

by the way jolly roger, I have both versions of the zero... I just wanted to bring the subject up to the forum... Im sure you would do it if you were in their shoes, but your not a part of a online store either...
-MIKE-

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:55 pm

im not questioning the fact that these planes go for what they are fetching on ebay and im not questioning the demand, the supply or anything of that sort... Im questioning the fact that a online store states that they are (SOLD OUT) and have (NONE IN STOCK) available but yet sell these (SOLD OUT, NONE IN STOCK) planes on ebay...This is my question and my only question....
-MIKE-

Col.Pickle · Post by **Col.Pickle** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:02 pm

Light.Inf.Scout wrote:You're wrong Gunner and its called being dishonest. You are not telling customers in your store you don't have a product any longer - when you do - (lying) just to sell it on ebay to get more money. If you or any other retailer does this it is wrong - period. You're not changing my opinion and I'm not changing yours. I have said all I intend to - done with this thread.

I agree with Light Inf. Scout. Saying you have none in stock and then selling them on eBay is not very good. However the seller can charge whatever price he wants when he wants, its up to the buyer to decide if he wants to sell it. My 2 cents (in CAN of course) there.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:07 pm

I have 3 green Zeros and one white . Does anybody want to trade on some P-38s ? Or $780 for the whole kit and kabudel?

Sorry wrong thread.
OK Ok I just had to do that

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:39 pm

I don't think anyone is "right" or "wrong" on this matter and it's true BS when any of you tells the other what their opinion is... The fact of the matter is, both sides of the argument have a point... It's a matter of your views on collecting ethics and how you view the online retailers (or B&M retailers).

To put it into perspective from a larger collecting community, Brian's Toys is a well known retailer online for Star Wars goods but they have a somewhat bad reputation among collectors. I've bought off them on occassion but not often because they do (IMO) price gouge a lot of items. Fact is I can get it cheaper elsewhere... So I do.

I see the point made that, if BC has these planes in stock, yet their shop says "Out of Stock", and they're still selling them Ebay, there is definite deception there... To deny that is silly. They're "lying" on their site if they're selling them on Ebay for $300 but they have an OOS listing for them on their store site for $60 or whatever it costs...

Whether that's wrong or not? That's up to your standards as a collector... Nobody's able to make that determination for you but yourself.

In the SW world, if you try making moolah off your toys on most forums, you are banned. Most sites are made to HELP each other, not turn a profit, and so those people are helped right out the door by staff... As a collecting community, that's really how it should be since it's supposedly a friendly atmosphere. I know I haven't ever asked over what I paid for something on here.

BC is a business though, so that OTHER side of this argument is entitled to their opinion... BC isn't your friend, they're a business. However, like with Brian's toys, BC makes its reputation what it is, and they are forced to deal with their reputation they put out there... So if they lose sales on other items over this, that's their fault essentially. But everyone's entitled to agree or disagree with them on what they do and how they do it unless they're breaking a law (bait-and-switch tactics, etc.).

Personally I don't agree with them selling the planes on ebay. If you have 'em, set your price and sell 'em if you want "legitimacy" in my eyes. I don't buy much from them though so my opinion means little to them I'm sure. And if you're happy with the way they do business that's great too... Some people easily look beyond this I'm sure, others won't, but nobody's right or wrong on it at all.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:55 pm

I think people are mistating some facts.

FACT: Badcattoys DID NOT sell the zero at $300 bucks. The bidders got into a bidding war raised the price up to $300 bucks. Look at at the starting price, it's $1.00.

That's right. $1.00.

So I don't know how anyone could consider that price gouging. Badcat took a risk, and it paid off in the end for them.

If for some reason, you bid on their zero at $1.00, and for some reason managed to WIN that zero for $1.00, would you go to badcat and say, "I'm sorry, it's unfair of me to win such a valuable plane for only a buck. Here's 58.99 to make it all even for ya."

Or will you come here, make a brag thread how you won such an awesome plane for only a buck?

The only thing's wrong here is that the facts in the matter is getting miscontrued now.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Can someone please direct me to a badcat auction where they started the listing price at $300 for the zero?

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:02 pm

totally agree with you JJ, finally someone answered my ? thank you... AND the question was not the price, but why sell something on ebay that is supposedly (OUT OF STOCK) thats my only ?
-MIKE-

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:14 pm

Greetings:

There is a very interesting point in all of this. A person went to the BadCat website and saw the Zeroes as being out of stock. This person, who is obiviously a knowledgable consumer, went to ebay and sees the business offering the Zero online when it is apparently out of stock and sees it go for money.

Those are the facts, the question is, if you were concerned about this, why did you just not ask BadCat about it? BadCat has an email, a telephone number and you could have asked the question thru the ebay question form. Why didn't you just ask them? If I want to know why someone is doing something, I ask them. Now they may not have given you an honest response, but you could have at least asked the question to them. Perhaps if you asked and pointed out what you saw, they may have given you the Zero at that price? Who knows?

If they are a good business and want to please you the customer they would have either given you the Zero at the price on their website or they would have given you a truthful or nontruthful explanation of why they were selling the planes on ebay. Then had you not gotten any satisfaction, you could have come on here and told all of us about how badly you were treated and how they screwed you. What could be better than that?

I would have at least emailed them, pointed out the evidence I saw, and see if they responded. Perhaps you could have your Zero at the price you want and then this thread would not have even been needed.

Corey

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:59 pm

GooglyDoogly wrote:I think people are mistating some facts.

FACT: Badcattoys DID NOT sell the zero at $300 bucks. The bidders got into a bidding war raised the price up to $300 bucks. Look at at the starting price, it's $1.00.

That's right. $1.00.

So I don't know how anyone could consider that price gouging. Badcat took a risk, and it paid off in the end for them.

If for some reason, you bid on their zero at $1.00, and for some reason managed to WIN that zero for $1.00, would you go to badcat and say, "I'm sorry, it's unfair of me to win such a valuable plane for only a buck. Here's 58.99 to make it all even for ya."

Or will you come here, make a brag thread how you won such an awesome plane for only a buck?

The only thing's wrong here is that the facts in the matter is getting miscontrued now.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Can someone please direct me to a badcat auction where they started the listing price at $300 for the zero?

Excellent point. Hard to accuse of of price gouging when starting at a buck!

Black Lion VF-213 · Post by **Black Lion VF-213** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:21 pm

Googly Doogly nailed it on the head. Case closed. BadCat started the bidding at for Zeros at $1. Is that their fault? Heck no!! They are not price gouging. Does anyone know accoring to the FCC, what is price gouging? Simple. When a business sets a new price that is ridiculously higher than the original price of a product according to common sense economics. In other words if a Zero was selling for $59.99 on a website and then one month later its price was $159, then according to FCC rules consumers may have a case. However, in auctions, all FCC rules are thrown out the window. $1 starting price cannot be considered price gouging.

BadCatMatt · Post by **BadCatMatt** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:38 pm

Don't let the facts get in the way of the truth, gentlemen:

1. No where on our website is the 1:18 Zero listed as "out of stock", or "in stock" for that matter. It's simply not listed, and hasn't been listed for many months.

2. The actually text of the $1.00 auction is as follows:

"A6M2 MODEL 21 ZERO 1:18 scale by Blue Box Toys (BBI) Elite Force NIB/MIB never opened, product never removed. Sporting a 26" wingspan and once sold exclusively on the web by Bad Cat Toys, the BBI Pearl Harbor Zero is now out of production, out of stock, and extremely collectible! This is an auction item only and we do not have any left for general sale via the telephone. The paint scheme is that of Takashi Hirano (KIA) during the Pearl Harbor attack. ZERO number AI-152 was assigned to the Japanese carrier Akagi and was shot down while strafing Hickam Airfield. The model, which is fully finished and assembles without tools or glue in a couple of minutes, features a super detailed removable cockpit, rotating prop, retractable undercarriage, sliding canopy, movable control surfaces, and pilot action figure. Definitely a must-have for all 1:18 scale collectors. Now all your 21st Century and BBI aircraft having something to shoot at!"

Of course, one can correctly assume we have sufficient inventory to cover this auction.

3. Callers to our store will be told that Rob has tagged all remaining Zeros for final disposition on Ebay, and that none are left for general sale.

4. Funny, there's never any complaints when a Stuka or F-86 yields $18.00.

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:44 pm

hey matt, do you have any zeros in stock? I was told I should email you and ask, if so you think you can sell it to me for 69.99...
-MIKE-

BadCatMatt · Post by **BadCatMatt** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:45 pm

McCarthy, you wouldn't get one for 10 times that amount.

digger · Post by **digger** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:47 pm

Unless on ebay of course..

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:48 pm

yeah i figured... someone suggested that I ask... How about my original question, if you dont have any in stock, why all the zeros showing up on ebay sold from your ebay ID... Thanks
-MIKE-

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:52 pm

GooglyDoogly wrote:I think people are mistating some facts.

FACT: Badcattoys DID NOT sell the zero at $300 bucks. The bidders got into a bidding war raised the price up to $300 bucks. Look at at the starting price, it's $1.00.

That's right. $1.00.

So I don't know how anyone could consider that price gouging. Badcat took a risk, and it paid off in the end for them.

If for some reason, you bid on their zero at $1.00, and for some reason managed to WIN that zero for $1.00, would you go to badcat and say, "I'm sorry, it's unfair of me to win such a valuable plane for only a buck. Here's 58.99 to make it all even for ya."

Or will you come here, make a brag thread how you won such an awesome plane for only a buck?

The only thing's wrong here is that the facts in the matter is getting miscontrued now.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Can someone please direct me to a badcat auction where they started the listing price at $300 for the zero?

Agree with you 100%..

Badcat isn't obligated to sell anything they have and they can do with it what they like.. If they choose to sell anything they have left on Ebay, then so be it.. And if they make good money on it, then good for them..

I for one, certainly won't hold it against them..

And Matt, thanks for your input..

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:54 pm

The worst crime against working people is a company which fails to
operate at a profit.
Samuel Gompers

BadCatMatt · Post by **BadCatMatt** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:49 pm

mccarthy1028 wrote:yeah i figured... someone suggested that I ask... How about my original question, if you dont have any in stock, why all the zeros showing up on ebay sold from your ebay ID... Thanks
-MIKE-

My post already answered this question. Read it again.

BadCatMatt · Post by **BadCatMatt** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:56 pm

Light.Inf.Scout wrote:You're wrong Gunner and its called being dishonest. You are not telling customers in your store you don't have a product any longer - when you do - (lying) just to sell it on ebay to get more money. If you or any other retailer does this it is wrong - period. You're not changing my opinion and I'm not changing yours. I have said all I intend to - done with this thread.

This is untrue.

All our telephone/email customers are told these aircraft have been tagged for disposal on eBay. We have the right to sell our property in whatever market we choose to whomever we choose. And, if that market is a $1 eBay beginning auction, then so be it. We don't need your permission.

BadCatMatt · Post by **BadCatMatt** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:00 pm

Jolly Roger wrote:so how does badcat rig these auctions to go for 200$?

BCAT has never "rigged" any auction. The highest bid is the winner. That's the way it works, for better or worse.

It's worth noting that we have many loyal customers who never buy from our webstore. They simply follow our auctions and purchase from us on eBay exclusively.